Three and a half years and it's time to say good-bye. - Page 3 - Dotable

Dotable Nick · 11th January 2009, 05:58 AM

Josh, Perception is a strong factor. We wish you the best obviously, but the fact is, other than Aussie Bob not being behind us, we kept his winning formula the same. Obviously some sysadmin decisions were made, and some other changes were made that weren't executed to UK2's level of normal satisfaction.

For those who wish to stick around through this rough patch, they will be happy. For the rest of you, we wish you the best.

Josh · 11th January 2009, 06:17 AM

Nick,

Please see to my refund or get Marc to. I have been told by Marc that I would receive it today and given Dave received his within 2 hours of emailing Marc, I fail to see why I am having to wait.

Thank you.

CodeYoda · 11th January 2009, 06:19 AM

And I'll add this to Josh's comments:

For those of us that want to leave, it needs to be allowed to happen, and happen quickly, without letting these tickets sit and age when they are opened. Treat me with respect, and you'll get the same from me.

No matter how much you plan to improve, and how much you explain what happened, there are those of us who *must* leave regardless of the explanation because it's a shrewd business decision. There are those that will remain at Dotable and be your support base as you return to excellence.

Of those that leave, some will return in the future. How many depends on how you treat them in this difficult time.

Josh · 11th January 2009, 08:13 AM

Refund received.

Adios folks and the best of luck to you all.

Curtis · 11th January 2009, 10:00 AM

I need two refunds at the moment. One for double billing and one for an account I am trying to close as mentioned in another thread. Not sure how you did this but guess I need to pull a rabbit out of my *** to get results.

dkg · 11th January 2009, 11:04 AM

Email Marc directly. That is how both Josh and I got refunds processed.

Brad · 11th January 2009, 03:20 PM

Coming in late.... (Been on a great holiday

)

CYA Josh - Best of Luck to you !
And to Dave and the others as well

I'm here for the Long Haul.
The grass is not always greener elsewhere...
The service to me here has been great

So keep it up Nick !

Brad

Left Coast · 11th January 2009, 05:42 PM

I've been a dotable client for a couple of years now and have been quite happy with it. I feel for the folks who got affected by the Jupiter fiasco.

The strange thing is that I'm going to stay with Dotable exactly because of what happened. UK2 inherited this server from Aussie Bob and quite frankly I don't think Aussie Bob and Co. could have done any better. For the last few days I watched the UK2.net group pool their resources together to try to fix a DEFCON 1 situation and I was impressed.

Coulda', woulda', shoulda'. Everybody's an expert when it's not your feet under the fire. Nick/Marc and company you can chuck this in as a valuable learning experience and hopefully you become better for it.

Empire · 11th January 2009, 07:05 PM

My feelings toward Dotable as of late have not been due to the Jupiter debacle, although it has exposed the lack of readiness to quickly restore services after a serious malfunction. The advent of UK2 involvement in Dotable was marked by a philosophy of changing things because "we know it's best" and "we can't imagine anyone not wanting this". The rapid switchover to mailfiltering and shutdown of SpamAssassin was a prime example. As Josh put it best, it was also a "take it or leave it" example.

First of all, it was not proposed or discussed, just DONE, as Nick wrote, "I didn't open this up for conversation because I couldn't imagine anyone not wanting it." The large impact of turning off SpamAssassin was attempted to be minimized by comparisons such as: "I considered this service an addition to our network, similar to how we would add say a Cisco firewall - basically a security implementation. Hence it was rolled out in a network-wide manner, as it's protecting the whole Dotable network." However, it was not like adding an appliance to the network. Removing SA changed email headers that people had their email clients using with filters. My clients had their email change with little or no warning - because I had little or no warning. Dotable changed DNS records of my clients. References to those using external DNS included: "As for the external DNS, this is something that while it may work is unsupported. When you chose to not use our service for everything issues can arise, this is one of them. This is only 1 of the many type of things that can happen when you chose not to use our DNS." Hello, this is the hosting game. I may use what DNS solution I consider best for my needs. Such an attitude of 'our changes may make your configuration break unless you use our DNS' are pretty simplistic and arrogant.
I am not singling our Nick or Billy. I know that Billy was just carrying out orders, as he commented: "And honestly I would have liked to have more notice before I had to roll this out, however when I am told something has to be done by date X, I have to do it."
I'm sorry if this sounds like a familiar rant, as I had made the reasons for my displeasure known in an earlier post. It's just this approach of "yes, we sold you one set of features, but tonight we are going to change things, and we know you will like it". That while requests from the Dotable community, such as fixing the status page, or doing a PHP compile to fix a client problem are not actioned. Whose agenda was served in the last months, UK2 or the Dotable clients? With a new management team, whose agenda will be served?

foobic · 11th January 2009, 09:09 PM

Empire, that was a great post, and pretty much sums up why I decided to leave also (before the Jupiter fiasco). Since the takeover the UK2 management has sadly failed to come close to the level of maturity, respect and expertise that we took for granted when Bob and Steve were in charge. I guess the latest round of changes could be seen as a major effort by UK2 to improve on that. I hope it works out for the new Dotable and the customers who decide to stay, but for me it's too late.

"Left Coast" - have you seen how other hosts handle raid failures? When it first happened I had a lot of sympathy for the Dotable crew - it really is a host's worst nightmare and almost always leads to a long outage - having it happen simultaneously on two servers must have seemed like a curse. But for other reputable hosts "long outage" means 6-12 hours, maybe 18 or 24 if everything that possibly can go wrong, does. 3-4 days (or even more for some) is just unbelievable.

Josh, and everyone else leaving or staying - hope your decisions (either way) work out for the best, and you find what you're looking for. See you round...

11th January 2009, 05:58 AM	#21 (permalink)
Dotable Nick Dotable Staff Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 410	Josh, Perception is a strong factor. We wish you the best obviously, but the fact is, other than Aussie Bob not being behind us, we kept his winning formula the same. Obviously some sysadmin decisions were made, and some other changes were made that weren't executed to UK2's level of normal satisfaction. For those who wish to stick around through this rough patch, they will be happy. For the rest of you, we wish you the best. __________________ We work hard to provide you the best possible service. Please return the favor by spreading the word and review Dotable! Review sites we trust: [url=http://hostjury.com/reviews/add/135]HostJury.com[/url] [url=http://www.webhostingstuff.com/addcomments/Dotablecom.html]WebHostingStuff.com[/url]

11th January 2009, 06:17 AM	#22 (permalink)
Josh Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Farnham, Surrey, GB Posts: 883	Nick, Please see to my refund or get Marc to. I have been told by Marc that I would receive it today and given Dave received his within 2 hours of emailing Marc, I fail to see why I am having to wait. Thank you. __________________ Joshua Powell

11th January 2009, 06:19 AM	#23 (permalink)
CodeYoda Use the Code Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 15	And I'll add this to Josh's comments: For those of us that want to leave, it needs to be allowed to happen, and happen quickly, without letting these tickets sit and age when they are opened. Treat me with respect, and you'll get the same from me. No matter how much you plan to improve, and how much you explain what happened, there are those of us who must leave regardless of the explanation because it's a shrewd business decision. There are those that will remain at Dotable and be your support base as you return to excellence. Of those that leave, some will return in the future. How many depends on how you treat them in this difficult time. __________________ Chris The Web Specialist, LLC chris [ @ ] web-specialist.us http://www.thewebspecialist.us/

11th January 2009, 08:13 AM	#24 (permalink)
Josh Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Farnham, Surrey, GB Posts: 883	Refund received. Adios folks and the best of luck to you all. __________________ Joshua Powell

11th January 2009, 10:00 AM	#25 (permalink)
Curtis Dotable Member #65 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: United States Posts: 105	I need two refunds at the moment. One for double billing and one for an account I am trying to close as mentioned in another thread. Not sure how you did this but guess I need to pull a rabbit out of my *** to get results. __________________

11th January 2009, 11:04 AM	#26 (permalink)
dkg Northwoodsman Join Date: May 2006 Location: Northwoods of Maine Posts: 815	Email Marc directly. That is how both Josh and I got refunds processed. __________________ Dave G. Click here to learn about a free eNom reseller account!!! How about a nice cabin rental on Moosehead Lake in Northern Maine? Aussie Bob fan since May 2002

11th January 2009, 03:20 PM	#27 (permalink)
Brad Smiling can be Infectious Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 105	Coming in late.... (Been on a great holiday ) CYA Josh - Best of Luck to you ! And to Dave and the others as well I'm here for the Long Haul. The grass is not always greener elsewhere... The service to me here has been great So keep it up Nick ! Brad

11th January 2009, 05:42 PM	#28 (permalink)
Left Coast New Dotable member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 10	I've been a dotable client for a couple of years now and have been quite happy with it. I feel for the folks who got affected by the Jupiter fiasco. The strange thing is that I'm going to stay with Dotable exactly because of what happened. UK2 inherited this server from Aussie Bob and quite frankly I don't think Aussie Bob and Co. could have done any better. For the last few days I watched the UK2.net group pool their resources together to try to fix a DEFCON 1 situation and I was impressed. Coulda', woulda', shoulda'. Everybody's an expert when it's not your feet under the fire. Nick/Marc and company you can chuck this in as a valuable learning experience and hopefully you become better for it.

11th January 2009, 07:05 PM	#29 (permalink)
Empire Single processor version Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NY state, USA Posts: 169	My feelings toward Dotable as of late have not been due to the Jupiter debacle, although it has exposed the lack of readiness to quickly restore services after a serious malfunction. The advent of UK2 involvement in Dotable was marked by a philosophy of changing things because "we know it's best" and "we can't imagine anyone not wanting this". The rapid switchover to mailfiltering and shutdown of SpamAssassin was a prime example. As Josh put it best, it was also a "take it or leave it" example. First of all, it was not proposed or discussed, just DONE, as Nick wrote, "I didn't open this up for conversation because I couldn't imagine anyone not wanting it." The large impact of turning off SpamAssassin was attempted to be minimized by comparisons such as: "I considered this service an addition to our network, similar to how we would add say a Cisco firewall - basically a security implementation. Hence it was rolled out in a network-wide manner, as it's protecting the whole Dotable network." However, it was not like adding an appliance to the network. Removing SA changed email headers that people had their email clients using with filters. My clients had their email change with little or no warning - because I had little or no warning. Dotable changed DNS records of my clients. References to those using external DNS included: "As for the external DNS, this is something that while it may work is unsupported. When you chose to not use our service for everything issues can arise, this is one of them. This is only 1 of the many type of things that can happen when you chose not to use our DNS." Hello, this is the hosting game. I may use what DNS solution I consider best for my needs. Such an attitude of 'our changes may make your configuration break unless you use our DNS' are pretty simplistic and arrogant. I am not singling our Nick or Billy. I know that Billy was just carrying out orders, as he commented: "And honestly I would have liked to have more notice before I had to roll this out, however when I am told something has to be done by date X, I have to do it." I'm sorry if this sounds like a familiar rant, as I had made the reasons for my displeasure known in an earlier post. It's just this approach of "yes, we sold you one set of features, but tonight we are going to change things, and we know you will like it". That while requests from the Dotable community, such as fixing the status page, or doing a PHP compile to fix a client problem are not actioned. Whose agenda was served in the last months, UK2 or the Dotable clients? With a new management team, whose agenda will be served? __________________ If you make customers unhappy in the physical world, they might each tell 6 friends. If you make customers unhappy on the Internet, they can each tell 6,000 friends. JEFF BEZOS - AMAZON

11th January 2009, 09:09 PM	#30 (permalink)
foobic Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 86	Empire, that was a great post, and pretty much sums up why I decided to leave also (before the Jupiter fiasco). Since the takeover the UK2 management has sadly failed to come close to the level of maturity, respect and expertise that we took for granted when Bob and Steve were in charge. I guess the latest round of changes could be seen as a major effort by UK2 to improve on that. I hope it works out for the new Dotable and the customers who decide to stay, but for me it's too late. "Left Coast" - have you seen how other hosts handle raid failures? When it first happened I had a lot of sympathy for the Dotable crew - it really is a host's worst nightmare and almost always leads to a long outage - having it happen simultaneously on two servers must have seemed like a curse. But for other reputable hosts "long outage" means 6-12 hours, maybe 18 or 24 if everything that possibly can go wrong, does. 3-4 days (or even more for some) is just unbelievable. Josh, and everyone else leaving or staying - hope your decisions (either way) work out for the best, and you find what you're looking for. See you round... __________________ Chris :: ClonePanel: Open source backup \| monitoring \| dns failover for resellers.

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